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You just gotta rent some games and find out which ones suit your playing style.

Personally I prefer consoles because I don't have the money right now to upgrade to the latest video card every 6 damn months. I don't have to worry about drivers or speed bottlenecks or not being able to enjoy all the eye candy the game has to offer. With consoles, its set in stone and the games are gauranteed to not require more than that to look good.

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That's not to say that I've played many console games in the last little while. I find that while I like the sensitivity of the controls on a PC, sometimes a console offers more in the way of versatility.

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“I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.”

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

[ 10-22-2005: Message edited by: Devastator ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by RoGuEBiTcH:
they will never acheive the long term followings PC titles can drum up.

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you're kidding, right?

Mario
Sonic the Hedgehog
Megaman
Final Fantasy
Halo
Grand Theft Auto

and I just woke up. you want me to come back and name some more when I'm fully awake?

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Often times too, Console versions of PC games have added features that make them more interesting. Take FarCry for example.

More to the point, modern consoles are more like PCs anyway. xBox for example IS a P3 733 w/ 256MB of RAM (iirc) and a Geforce3 Ti 500.

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“I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.”

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

Flux, if you're happy just playing a game for years on end, good for you. I get bored after a month or two, tops. PC titles like the DOOM, the Quake series, Half Life.. their mod communities have kept the games alive for, in some cases, over a decade after their initial release.

I guess some people might /remember/ those other games. But without sequels, they die rather quickly - more quickly as the game industry grows.

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quote:

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Originally posted by RoGuEBiTcH:
[QB]what's the upgrade path?

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There is none. That's part of its appeal to some people. Did you not read my posts? If you want to get technical there have been modules available to increase a console's performance marginally (N64 memory thingy, console optical drives and hard drives, expansion ports to play handheld cartridges and interface with the handhelds themselves, etc.) but from my POV those are usually never required for console games to look good, so I discounted them.

quote:

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Flux, if you're happy just playing a game for years on end, good for you. I get bored after a month or two, tops.

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Don't you still runa QMass server, or whatever you called it? Or still at least play Q2 online? A game that's almost 10 years old now.

quote:

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PC titles like the DOOM, the Quake series, Half Life.. their mod communities have kept the games alive for, in some cases, over a decade after their initial release.

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I haven't seen any new Quake 2, Half Life or Quake 3 mods for several years. Is anyone here playing any Doom 3 mods at all? Anyone?

quote:

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I guess some people might /remember/ those other games. But without sequels, they die rather quickly - more quickly as the game industry grows.

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Doom, Doom II: Hell on Earth, Ultimate Doom, Final Doom (hah!), Doom 3
Quake, Quake II, Quake III: Arena, Quake IV now

I do see what you're saying tho. The communities help keep games alive and before XBox Live! console gaming was largely a solo activity. And no, they're not mod'able, which contributes to their shorter lifespan. But I think with XBox Live! things will start to change. Some console games already have developed online communities and even others have downloadable content. Some of that content are maps, others add new gametypes as mods would. Give it a little more time, especially with the 360 coming out, and we'll see the console communities and mods explode.

[ 10-23-2005: Message edited by: Flux ]

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Quake and Quake2 are still hacked on, mod'ed, and played by clans and tourney players all the time. See Quakeforge, Quake2forge, Quake2Max, Telejano, Darkplaces (--> Nexuiz), ..there's lots going on with each. DOOM (the original) has an insane community/fanbase, and a scary amount of mods'n'wads available for it. See doomworld.com.

No, I don't still run a Q2 server fulltime. No, it was never vanilla baseq2 DM. Yes, it was called QMass. What's with the attitude?

I never said console games are inferior. But they are inherently much less extensible, and therefore have shorter lifespans.

And their controllers suck. Where's the finesse?

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Play Advance Wars Dual Strike on the DS. Play Oblivion on PC.
Don't play Halo. At all.

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fLUX ~ ARe yOU DOWn wITh tEh sYNDromE?

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quote:

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Originally posted by RoGuEBiTcH:
Yea, I've never thought very much of Halo. I think people who do, have never played Quake. In fact, it's like Quake for people with Down Syndrome. Everything hapens at 1/2 speed, and you can play it with mittens on.

fLUX ~ ARe yOU DOWn wITh tEh sYNDromE?

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An appropriate response from someone who can't adapt to the controls. Who has the mental condition again? I've played Quake 2 and 3 quite religiously when they came out.

Again, you've ruined a good discussion with your elitist, ignorant, narrow-minded attitude.

[ 10-24-2005: Message edited by: Flux ]

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RB, you are correct that %99 of users see consoles as a closed box. OTOH xBox only every had a 90 day (it might be 1yr now) warranty. I've personally taken a few xBoxs apart to try fix the optical drives (the early xBoxes, like 2001-ish, had problems with the optical sensor failing, sometimes it was dust, othes just quit completely. It seemed to be a drive defect rather than a design flaw of the xBox). It doesn't look like the cpu is actually soldered down, and I think the GPU is in a ZIF type socket too. IIRC, even the RAM can be changed out. Although, I dont' know what kind of effect changing those components would have on an kind of embedded OS.

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“I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.”

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

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The CPU looks like it's in the same sort of PGA370 socket found in laptops, and is only missing the lever found on the standard PGA370 socket, in fact, in one particular xBox we removed the CPU just for fun (the customer was scrappping it); we unlocked the socket with a screwdriver. I didn't take a good look at the GPU. The RAM also is a standard PC66/100/133 DIMM form factor from what I remember.

They used standard PATA ribbon cables, with a proprietary power connector. In theory you could replace the DVD drive with one off the shelf, you would have to have a good multi-meter though, and really would need to know what you're doing so you don't seriously fuck it up. I wouldn't attempt it.

Oh, and the xBox doesn't have a type of embedded OS? Turn one on without a disc in it. What do you call that?

If you doubt me, I still remember the exact bit type and size of the case screws, and their locations. I can even tell you that we reattached the rubber feet with double-sided carpet tape, cut to fit.

As to why we did this for people? Because the failures happened at around the 2-3yr mark when the warranty had long since expired. (90 day warranty!) The customers usually asked us because to send it for drive replacement they would need to pay for shipping both ways to the US, plus the cost of parts/labour. So, it was a couple of hundred vs $25 for us just to take a look at the problem.

[ 10-24-2005: Message edited by: AcidWarp ]

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“I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.”

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

Any guide online will tell you that you have to solder/unsolder CPU and RAM chips to replace them. I haven't done it myself, but finding guides that say how to do it is better than saying "in theory" or "iirc." The chips on my board (v 1.1) are all attached to the PCB.

You can replace it with any DVD drive. It's been done, I've read about it.

That's not an OS. That's the Dashboard. There's a difference. Games don't need the Dashboard to run. I know games have their own kernels because I read "Opening the XBox" which details not only how the XBox works, but all the people, ideas and politics (interpersonal, interoffice and intercorporate) behind the entire project from idea to store shelf. Its a fucking great book, its a pity its out of print. You'd prolly like it, but you'd have to find it second-hand.

As for drive failures, I remember reading news within months after its initial release. I can understand people taking them in for repair when warranty is expired, but I guess they should've gotten the extended warranty in the first place. Not that its their fault, or that I think extended warranties are great ideas to begin with, but.. c'est la vie.

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As you rip into AW. You're such a dipshit, lol.

Lighten the fuck up. Is this is a serious discussion about real important issues or something?

Do you have any friends? Do you act like such a baby with them? Shit..

Look, you seriously need to learn how to take a joke.. bust balls a litle bit. Either that or just shut the fuck up. Every time someone gives you a little shit around here, you break off into some dramatic flame/rant. Chill out. We've all been here a long time.. we're probably all sticking around. So what the fuck? Quit being a baby and getting all offended.

..Bitch.

[ 10-24-2005: Message edited by: RoGuEBiTcH ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by RoGuEBiTcH:
Lighten the fuck up.

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Obviously you're not funny. If you weren't such a dick all the time maybe I wouldn't think everything from you is just some passive-agressive attack. At least I can admit when I'm wrong. I don't think you have that capacity.

Sorry for getting off-topic, Max.

[ 10-24-2005: Message edited by: Flux ]

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RB, he wasn't ripping into me. I posted something much nastier, then realized that Flux wasn't trying to rip me so I edited out the nasty bits where I called him all sorts of names.

I think if any lightening up needs to be done, then we should go to Ikea. I've always liked their track lighting.

Oh, and one point about the dashboard. On my old 286, I had several games that ran off of their own bootdisk, and not off of DOS. I figured the dashboard for a basic OS. I always assumed that it was kind of like booting off of a Knoppix disc or a QNX disc (if QNX is still around), it boots off the CD, and doesn't run through your main OS.

[ 10-25-2005: Message edited by: AcidWarp ]

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“I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.”

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

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I play Consoles for mostly sports games and RPGS. I like PC's for FPS's. Call it what you will but playing a FPS on anything other than a keyboard + mouse, still feels funky to me.

The XBox does have its own BIOS, which is what loads and POSTS while it plays the blob animation and logo stuff. The Dashboard has the kernel compiled into it and games do not need to run inside the Dashboard like it was an OS or host application. It does seem like the DB is an OS tho cuz whenever you eject the game while playing, it goes right to the DB without missing a step, and when discs are inserted while in the DB, it starts the game.

I'm looking forward to the 360. Not only for the games, but to see what changes MS has made to its guts.

There hasn't been much in PC gaming to get me interested. I haven't played a PC game since Half Life 2, and that was last December. Myst V came out, but they used CG characters instead of compositing actors into the CG scenes which, imo, breaks the 'realism.' Call me crazy, but I'm a fan of the series, and apparently a purist because of that. Anyway, I'm tired of having to upgrade to play the latest and greatest. What ran Doom III like butter is now eaten alive by F.E.A.R. And thanks to the fierce competition between MS and Sony, a lot of companies are now offering multi-platform launches of games that would normally just be PC-only (Quake IV and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion are 360 launch titles, and to further prove the point, Oblivion has gotten much more press as a 360 launch title than a PC title). I've heard good things about some of the latest PC offerings tho, like Indigo Prophecy and F.E.A.R. Can anyone weigh in on these games?

[ 10-25-2005: Message edited by: Flux ]

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Maybe a winky would have been good there

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“I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.”

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

Over here, manufacturers (or their importers or resellers) are bound by law to replace defective consumer electronics products within two or three years of purchase, no matter what the stated warranty is.

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quote:

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Originally posted by FS:
Wow, I can't believe I'm agreeing with FS on this one

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[ 10-26-2005: Message edited by: RoGuEBiTcH ]

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