Heh, seriously though, I don't know.

[ 03-21-2005: Message edited by: AcidWarp ]

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“I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.”

“Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change.”

When it comes to healthcare I would stick with known quantities and personal recommendations. I'm not sure if your wife's chin would be covered. My wife had some work done and she paid for it herself. I would ask if she got any support but then she would probably kill me for discussing it. It wasn't her boobies though, those ballons are huge enough!

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Originally posted by AcidWarp:
Move to canada?

Heh, seriously though, I don't know.

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I am sick of paying for Americans obtaining a simple piece of paper that says they have Alberta health care. I am sick of people going to the doctors for the sniffles without so much as paying a cent. Privatize it, bring in user fees, drop my income taxes and allow me to divert those funds to a private health insurance policy instead. Make it so hospitals have to earn your dollars and QOS will go up.

The Liberals in this country have gotten most Canadians brainwashed into believing healthcare is a right. Health care is a privilege, not a right. Anyone who does not believe that should maybe see some of the world!

That's it. No broken bones, no stitches, no surgery, no consults, nothing. I think that pretty much means that I paid for more than my fair share of health care when compared to other people who used the same system but contributed less. Does that bother me? Not really. Sure, I could have saved a bucket load of money by paying my own way since I didn't need much care in the first place but there would be a lot more sick people not receiving care. I'm not as cynical as some people on here who think that everyone claiming free healthcare is abusing the system. Sure, there will be some but I think of the people who deserve the care but cannot afford it.

The fact that some people don't seem willing to help out other people because of the dent it makes in their own pocket is quite frightening to me and I hope that none of you or your friends or your families are ever in the situation of needing a helping hand. I'm sure that makes me a "bleeding heart liberal" but it's just the way I feel.

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As for the original question, go with a PPO. And then toss back a couple of IPA's.

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Originally posted by WillyTrombone:
but that ignores the fact that with a public healthcare system, there is essentially a government monopoly on insurance. I'll take it for granted that everyone here understands that monopolies breed stagnation and inferiority. The problem is, with a lack of competition, there's no way you can demand satisfaction. The only choice when presented with a poor quality of monopolized products/services would be to take it or leave it. Isn't that why British dentistry has become the butt of so many jokes? Or why we hear of Canadians who sometimes have to wait 1-2 years to visit a cardiologist?

As for the original question, go with a PPO. And then toss back a couple of IPA's.

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I don't think British dentistry is the problem, I think it's more British people's attitudes to oral hygene. I never had any problems WHEN I went to the dentist but going once every 17 years didn't cut it. Luckily I have healthy, but crooked, teeth otherwise I would be wearing denture by now.

You won't get any arguments from me about waiting lists in hospitals and I don't doubt that private health care offers a better quality of service (although I have never had private health care outside of the US). I think there should be private health care too and those that can afford it can pay for it. What, hmmmm, "annoys" is too strong a word but I'll use it anyway...what annoys me is that people don't want to help other people. I think that that is an ugly trait. I am positive I would feel differently if brought up over here though.

My Grandfather needed a LOT of medical care for the 15 years that I knew him. He was an engineer of some sorts and neither him or my Grandmother had much in the way of money. If we didn't have a National Health System then I don't know what would have happened to him.

Does anybody know how the UK NHS compares with the US equivalent (is that medicaid or something)?

[ 03-23-2005: Message edited by: Mad Max ]

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as for not wanting to give, I agree. It is an ugly trait. And compassion is one of the greatest measures of a person's humanity. One thing I've noticed, however, is that the amount a person is willing to give to others is often related to just how much value they perceive in what they're giving. That is, the extremes on either end frequently don't understand the difficulties of living in the middle. And in that sense, I can't really claim that it is an ugliness. It may very well be the case that there are many who would give more to help others but simply can't afford to, and that's one of the things I think is truly beautiful in America: that private charities fluorish. I don't have any statistics but I recall hearing that Americans, on average, give more to private charities than those in more 'progressive' countries. So, while I probably will never support governmental health care, I'll probably always be willing to give a few hundred dollars to the red cross each year or go give some time to habitat for humanity.

As for medicare/medicaid, relying on them for medical care is like relying on Social Security for retirement. IMO, it's just more proof that big government is inferior to private, competitive institutions.

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Private healthcare is bad because it is a PROFIT DRIVEN BUSINESS. Major decisions about your healthcare policy are going to be made by the guy in the boardroom who's trying to increase his margin this quarter.

Public healthcare sucks because the government runs it and there's no accountablility.

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Originally posted by WillyTrombone:
...It may very well be the case that there are many who would give more to help others but simply can't afford to...

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Let me start by saing that I like the system we have here. There's government health care, but if you don't want to use if you are free to use private doctors. Also if the government hospital don't have the resources for a timely treatment (or ANY treatment) they will pay your (usually but not always!) much higher* private doctor bill. Now currently the wrong people are running the government system, but they are being forced into order. Clean up the act, or get fired.

*) compared to cost of public healthcare per number of people served, probably divided between different sections since brain surgery is a bit more expensive than putting on band aids. But the private bill is not always higher, in some cases private organisation have succeeded in beating the government in terms of end-user costs.

If you are going to a public doctor, will he not prescribe your required further treatment for you, because the budget is so tight? If you are going to a private doctor, will he prescrive your not really required further treatment because it makes them money?

There's something that government health care has that private health case doesn't have: responsibility. They have a different kind of obligation though, which is to give money to their owners. I would rather trust the government in this case; nobody will criticise you for giving too much treatment, but the shit will hit the fan when people are undertreated.

Also I wonder how the private healthcare industry handles things like research, updated education for their staff and especially treating very rare and difficult illnesses.

Well, I think having private healtcare is an excellent method for keeping public healthcare in check and efficient, but I would not drop public healthcare.

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Originally posted by FS:
Wow, I can't believe I'm agreeing with FS on this one

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