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Author Topic: Bring in the clones
Mute
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posted 12-23-2004 11:20 AM     Profile for Mute   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
The first cloned-to-order pet sold in the United States is named Little Nicky, a 9-week-old kitten delivered to a Texas woman saddened by the loss of a cat she had owned for 17 years.

The kitten cost its owner $50,000 and was created from DNA from her beloved cat, named Nicky, who died last year.

"He is identical. His personality is the same," the owner, Julie, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. Although she agreed to be photographed with her cat, she asked that her last name and hometown not be disclosed because she said she fears being targeted by groups opposed to cloning.

Yet while Little Nicky, who was delivered two weeks ago, frolics in his new home, the kitten's creation and sale has reignited fierce ethical and scientific debate over cloning technology, which is rapidly advancing.


Cloned Cat Sale Generates Ethics Debate

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Ford!...there's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this script for Hamlet they've worked out!


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Acid
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posted 12-23-2004 11:23 AM     Profile for Acid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The 6th Day!

Thats cool but wierd at the same time.


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Snag
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posted 12-23-2004 11:24 AM     Profile for Snag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
"He is identical. His personality is the same," the owner, Julie, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

*COUGH*BULLSHIT*COUGH*

Identical twins do not have the same personalities. They also do not develope 100% the same. Some have moles the other does not...and many other minute variations. I hate when people say cloning replicates everything cause it does NOT. It does a disservice to people who are expecting great things from cloning.

I am glad this was in the article though:

quote:

In fact, the first cat cloned in 2001 had a different coat from its genetic donor, underscoring that environment and other biological variables make it impossible to exactly duplicate animals.


(AP) Julie holds her nine-week-old cat "Little Nicky" Wednesday, Dec. 22, 2004 in Texas. "Little Nicky"...
Full Image


"The thing that many people do not realize is that the cloned cat is not the same as the original," said Bonnie Beaver, a Texas A&M animal behaviorist who heads the American Veterinary Medical Association, which has no position on the issue. "It has a different personality. It has different life experiences. They want Fluffy, but it's not Fluffy."


[ 12-23-2004: Message edited by: Snag ]


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J0SH
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posted 12-23-2004 11:25 AM     Profile for J0SH   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
that's really interesting. it would be cool to try with a trained dog to see if it retains any of it's memories from the past life.

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Snag
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posted 12-23-2004 11:28 AM     Profile for Snag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
you are joking....right?
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J0SH
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posted 12-23-2004 11:35 AM     Profile for J0SH   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
nope - you never know!

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Snag
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posted 12-23-2004 11:36 AM     Profile for Snag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
memory is not genetic...
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Mad Max
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posted 12-23-2004 11:56 AM     Profile for Mad Max   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Perhaps the cloned dog would have the same capacity to learn but what it actually learns depends up on how it lives it's life. I think it could be the same dog IF it was brought up EXACTLY the same way as the doner. When I say EXACTLY, I mean 100% the same which, of course, is impossible since everyone and everything is now X years older than when the original puppy was born.

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Miss you guys.


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Snag
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posted 12-23-2004 12:34 PM     Profile for Snag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Max, even then...things would not be the same. How many times have you thought about how to deal with something and you had trouble deciding between mutliple ways? The point is, even given the EXACT same cicumstances, the exact same results will never re-occur.

Gotta love chaos theory


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Mute
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posted 12-23-2004 12:35 PM     Profile for Mute   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Acid:
The 6th Day!

Thats cool but wierd at the same time.


Exactly. What about human cloning, though? It's one thing to genetically manipulate animals for human benefit, but it is a whole other ball of wax to do so with humans like they did in the 6th Day movie. There are all kinds of ethical and practical considerations not the least of which being the fact that the failure rate of cloned animals is way too high to risk human experimentation. Even if we knew we could successfully clone humans there is still a host of ethical problems.

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Ford!...there's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this script for Hamlet they've worked out!


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Mad Max
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posted 12-23-2004 12:51 PM     Profile for Mad Max   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mute:
Exactly. What about human cloning, though? It's one thing to genetically manipulate animals for human benefit, but it is a whole other ball of wax to do so with humans like they did in the 6th Day movie. There are all kinds of ethical and practical considerations not the least of which being the fact that the failure rate of cloned animals is way too high to risk human experimentation. Even if we knew we could successfully clone humans there is still a host of ethical problems.

Snag, All I can say is that I tried to put as much emphasis on the word exactly as I could. I did say it would be impossible too.

Here is what happens when cloning goes wrong. My wife and tried to clone a reindeer because we thought it would be cute wandering around the yard plus we had to simply try out that cloning kit we got last Christmas. Well, suffice to say old Wobble the Reindeer isn't going too far. Quite how he got so fat without a mouth is beyond us....
Wobble the Reindeer

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Miss you guys.


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Snag
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posted 12-23-2004 01:04 PM     Profile for Snag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I know Max It's all good.
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outrider
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posted 12-23-2004 01:34 PM     Profile for outrider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
50,000?

Cost of gas to drive to animal pound and find matching kitten: 2 dollars

Cost of spray paint to touch up kitten(if applicable): 3 dollars

Telling some rich goat you will clone her dead cat for 50,000: Priceless


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Mute
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posted 12-23-2004 01:56 PM     Profile for Mute   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Max:
Well, suffice to say old Wobble the Reindeer isn't going too far. Quite how he got so fat without a mouth is beyond us....
Wobble the Reindeer

Poor Wobble looks pathetic and drunk with his sad eyes and bulbous red nose. He can't join in any reindeer games, so he looks for solace in the bottom of a bottle of christmas spirits. This is a clear case of animal cruelty, and I'm going to report you to PETA's malnutritioned and legless stuffed animals division. No stuffed reindeer should have to suffer in this way.

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Ford!...there's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this script for Hamlet they've worked out!


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Cacophonous
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posted 12-23-2004 02:59 PM     Profile for Cacophonous   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
lol outrider

We may go see Meet the Fockers tonight.

Do you think it will be worth it?

Hard to tell.

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dAm
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posted 12-23-2004 08:33 PM     Profile for dAm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Another company has figured out how to remove the gene in cats that make people allergic to them. They'll go for I think 15,000.00 when they hit the market in a year or two.

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Mad Max
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posted 12-23-2004 08:58 PM     Profile for Mad Max   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dAm:
Another company has figured out how to remove the gene in cats that make people allergic to them. They'll go for I think 15,000.00 when they hit the market in a year or two.
more likely remove the gene from humans that makes them sneeze.

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dAm
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posted 12-24-2004 12:55 AM     Profile for dAm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
more likely remove the gene from humans that makes them sneeze

good idea....but no

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Shut-up and fish


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dAm
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posted 12-24-2004 12:56 AM     Profile for dAm   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
http://www.allerca.com/

WELCOME TO ALLERCA. ALLERCA is working to produce the world's first hypoallergenic cats. These cats will allow some of the millions of people allergic to cats to enjoy the love and companionship of a household pet without suffering from allergy symptoms.

Note: I was wrong about the price. They're only 3500.00 US.

[ 12-24-2004: Message edited by: dAm ]

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Shut-up and fish


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Cyborg6
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posted 12-24-2004 02:22 PM     Profile for Cyborg6   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
CellCloWn
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Mute
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posted 12-24-2004 04:40 PM     Profile for Mute   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Cyclone

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Ford!...there's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this script for Hamlet they've worked out!


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Cacophonous
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posted 12-24-2004 05:11 PM     Profile for Cacophonous   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The problem with DNA sampled on adults for cloning purposes is that the telomeres (the endings of the chromosomes that regulate ageing among other things) still consider themselves old and are replicated as such in the embryo. Therefore, all sorts of problems usually associated with old age show up early in the clone's life.

I'm not aware of that problem having been overcome recently.

That's what killed Dolly.

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