Read that, oh and I just finished watching Fahrenheit 9/11 and boy was that film full of air. I expected it to be convincing, was I watching the same movie as you??? LOL!

What is Moore doing on his website today? Showing blown up babies from Iraq to feed his weak minded followers misguided anger. If holywood nominates him they better be prepared for huge losses. Didn't a few of those moronic actors say they would be moving to Canada if Bush won? Go!!!

I

am

loving

this

I mean it's not even good cinema.

Some of the footage is interesting in that it's footage we never would have gotten to see otherwise but his assertions are off target. Things are out of context, it's truly not a good flick let alone a "Documentary"

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it's truly not a good flick let alone a "Documentary"

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The blown up people footage doesn't sway me, innocent people get killed in conflicts all the time. Doesn't make it right but it does happen.

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Originally posted by Mad Max:
As I said in an earlier thread, things can be taken out of context and a collection of snippets proves nothing. That does not mean that all of it is BS. What about Powell saying in 2001 that Iraq was not to be feared, that they had no WMDs or capapbility to make WMDs? A couple of years later the whole reason for invading Iraq is WMDs. Does that not strike you as being a little ironic? Are we supposed to believe that in the couple of years between those statements and the invasion that Iraq had amassed a stockpile of WMDs. THOSE are the parts of the {call it what you will} that I found interesting.

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A good liar always leaves an out. I've noticed that Bush and his goons seem to be good at passing the buck to the CIA and bad intel.

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The blown up people footage doesn't sway me, innocent people get killed in conflicts all the time. Doesn't make it right but it does happen.

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The death toll for Iraqi civilians has exceeded 100,000. Nearly 3,000 were killed on 9/11/01. There doesn't seem to be anything right about it.

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Originally posted by Acid:
How do you differentiate civilians from militia though? Its just like Vietnam in that sense.

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The civilians are the ones that are dead.

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The civilians are the ones that are dead.

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Originally posted by dAm:
[QUOTE]The civilians are the ones that are dead.

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I was being facetious. I know of course that civilians die in such conflicts. I did not blame anyone for anything. I meant that it didn't seem right that 100,000+ Iraqi civilians have been murdered vs. the under 3,000 American's murdered as a result of a US retaliatory war waged on the basis of an extremely thin if not entirely manufactured connection between Saddam (now out of power) and Al Qaeda. At this point, it can be argued that the only reason people are dying at all is because we are there.

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Originally posted by dAm:
Saddam was killing civilians long before we got there. Only difference now is that civilian deaths make the world news.

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If you want to talk about Saddam, in his 24 year reign he killed around 600,000 civilians in Iraq. Over 1/6th that many Iraqi civilians have been killed within the last 1.5 years or so in this 'war'. At that rate it would only take around another 7.5 years to reach Saddam's total civilian body count in his entire reign! ..and for what, bringing peace and democracy? jesus.

How do you define a civilian in Iraq anyway...the ones that are out of town? There is currently an America seige on the Iraqi city of Fallujah. This is a city of 300,000 people. Martial law has been called, and the military has declared the entire city a sunni insurgent stronghold. We are currently waging massive indiscriminate urban warfare on this city's inhabitants.

If this truly is the kind of resistance to democracy we are encountering there than Bush needs to come to terms with reality and get the fnck out. The average number of attacks in Iraq a few months ago was 30/day. It's now 90/day. The only way peace is going to happen in Iraq is if we get out or kill most of them, and that's not going to happen without a draft. We currently don't have the numbers to realize that pipe dream.

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Originally posted by Wintermute:
The only way peace is going to happen in Iraq is if we get out or kill most of them, and that's not going to happen without a draft. We currently don't have the numbers to realize that pipe dream.

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I agree with Ayn Rand on the draft:

"Of all the statist violations of individual rights in a mixed economy, the military draft is the worst. It is an abrogation of rights.

"It negates man's fundamental right—the right to life—and establishes the fundamental principle of statism: that a man's life belongs to the state, and the state may claim it by compelling him to sacrifice it in battle. Once that principle is accepted, the rest is only a matter of time."

I would defend the mainland voluntarily, but screw being drafted and shipped half way around the world to die for........ what?!

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