It's too bad Kerry sold his soul. It's true the religious right is behind Bush but at least their intentions are good. I am willing to put stem cell research and "the right to choose" (boy do i hate that phrase - the right to destroy life, am I missing something here?) on hold to save The United States of America.

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My god, _don't_ fuck this country up anymore than it already is. I'm tired of everyone walking around with their heads down, ashamed to be Americans because of this douche bag. Our economy is shit, the world hates us, the environment is being destroyed, and yet paranoid ignoramouses still want to vote for this honkey? Christ..

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quote:

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Originally posted by FS:
Wow, I can't believe I'm agreeing with FS on this one

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quote:

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Originally posted by LordVader:
The way I see it, everyone is either voting FOR Bush or AGAINST Bush. The other candidates might as well be a squirrel and a giraffe.

Those voting for Kerry (and the 82 people voting for Nader) never espouse the vitues of their candidate, only how shitty Bush is. That seems kind of dangerous to me. If the Democrats could have found a decent candidate, this election would be a landslide. As I see it, Kerry is an idiot also, willing to say anything to get elected, fortunately for him, he hasn't had four years in Office like Bush has. He hasn't had the opportunity to fuck up like Bush...given that opportunity, he will too.

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I am also from MA so there is a bit of balance here?

Jay~ You are an angry fellah, I would hate to be your girlfriend!

Here is the history as I see it. Bush was in fact a uniter, look at his record in Texas. Where was he on 9/11? In a school starting the republicans "compassionate conservative" plan. Don't know what that was? It basically was a plan to get people from both sides on board over his term to ensure republican placement for another 4 years or more. If I remember correctly that guy you hate named "Newt Gingrich" had his mark on it and it was in fact brilliant as usual. It could have lessoned the religious right's grip on control of the vote. (though they now once again have to rely on their vote again which sucks) Rice and Powell are black folks correct? You liberal folks would have enjoyed power in a "Compassionate America" but while the president was fighting an overwhelming battle for our safety you focused 100% on the media spin. Using racism and division (as you always do) to try to win an election you lined up with the media and enraged the world. While our soldiers died you were focusing on those naked prison twister pictures weren't you? You needed someone to blame and there was plenty of targets. How shameful indeed. Guess what? The outside world who doesn't understand our broken, sinful culture were also watching and believing.

So you have nobody to blame but yourselves. Your greedy but effective jump for power has hurt us all. I am glad Bush (who made a promise to hunt down and kill anyone who threatens our childrens safety) has kept his word and put his plans on hold. What does Kerry stand for? Anything? You have done nothing but bitch and whine to unite your angry base of "have nots". How cowardly is that? Am I looking at this right? Maybe I am insane, who knows...prove me wrong or maybe I am ruled by republican puppet masters. My gut tells me there is a good man in the white house doing a tough job, you joke about the "tough job" statement but it is true. Bush is stupid? It's sickening watching the attacks on Bush and America really. I have learned that those who are not capable of reason attack when they are in a corner like that JaY fellah.

I do not support the angry Michael Moore pacifists of this world and believe they need a good bitch slapping.

A fact:

MTV is baby sitting your kids and liberals are using them as pawns to grab power. Who is a miserable failure? You are!

sorry

quote:

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Originally posted by Cyborg6:

I have learned that those who are not capable of reason attack when they are in a corner...

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quote:

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Originally posted by MrsCyborg:
Kind of like this morning when your response to what I was saying amounted to all of "Kerry is a cock." How's that for being capable of reason?

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It kind of felt good, I do have to admit.

Vote how you see fit, but just make sure and vote.

Or else just shut up about the whole process.

[ 11-02-2004: Message edited by: Devastator ]

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And I've always felt bad for your wife.

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[ 11-02-2004: Message edited by: Devastator ]

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You gotta love what the vote by income graph says.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cacophonous:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

You gotta love what the vote by income graph says.

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I make enough money that it would benefit me financially but I don't care. I would rather pay more in taxes if we can better ourselves as a whole.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cacophonous:
I know a bunch low-middle class people that vote Republican.

I make enough money that it would benefit me financially but I don't care. I would rather pay more in taxes if we can better ourselves as a whole.

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I was just saying historically the majority of low-middle vote
for the democrat and the middle-upper vote republican.

So its not shocking for me to see it happen this time.

Not just this time.

But there are many exceptions to that logic.

Take most of the actors, and musicians. The people of NY. They all have money and usually vote Dem. What about one race like the Jewish for example? Typically Dems even the rich ones. Gays are mostly Dems.

What about the lower-middle class people that post here that vote Rep?

All I know is I will be glad when this is over. I won't pout if Bush wins. I still respect all of you for your own views even when I don't share them.

You guys rock.

[ 11-02-2004: Message edited by: Cacophonous ]

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quote:

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Take most of the actors, and musicians. The people of NY. They all have money and usually vote Dem. What about one race like the Jewish for example? Typically Dems even the rich ones. Gays are mostly Dems.

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I always thought actors and musicians are a minority, especially the ones that "have money" The majority of the people of NY do not have the money either. The ones that do have it are another minority of a sort, heh.

I didn't know that jews were typically dem? Is that true?

Now for the lawyers

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...America has taxes?

quote:

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YOUR VOTE FOR PRESIDENT WAS MOSTLY...
For Your Candidate (69%) Bush: 58% Kerry: 41%
Against His Opponent (25%) Bush: 29% Kerry: 71%

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quote:

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Originally posted by FS:
Wow, I can't believe I'm agreeing with FS on this one

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There are wealthy people that don't put money over important issues.

I feel good that my favorite states to vacation at all support Kerry and/or are disgusted with Bush: Michigan, California, New York and Illinois.

I really don't expect much from the Midwest and Southern states. j/k

If bush does take this and it looks like he will then I will try to be positive and look forward to some greatness over the next 4 years:

-We should all get another 'huge' tax break. Hopefully even more than the $200.00 we got last time.

-We will be safe from baby killers.
-We will be safe from people that say the word penis on the radio.
-We will have god to guide us.

Sorry for the sarcasm this early in the day.

[ 11-03-2004: Message edited by: Cacophonous ]

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- Renew the "Uniter" image lost after 9/11
- Embrace a few right leaning democrats
- Continue "Compassionate Conservative Plan"
- Educate the public
- Expose and crush the media elites

quote:

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Originally posted by Cyborg6:
Election Win Plan:

- Renew the "Uniter" image lost after 9/11
- Embrace a few right leaning democrats
- Continue "Compassionate Conservative Plan"
- Educate the public
- Expose and crush the media elites

I think it would be great if Bush went back to the school where he sat on 9/11 to continue his work. Maybe they do not think like this, maybe they should...who knows!

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I honestly don't understand what half of that even means.

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"Bite Me"

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- Renew the "Uniter" image lost after 9/11

Actually the country became more united right after 9-11. It took several years of being lied to by this administration before we became divided once again.

- Embrace a few right leaning democrats

Well if Bush can do now what he said he would do 4 years ago over the course of the next 4 years then maybe you will.

- Continue "Compassionate Conservative Plan"

lol What is this master plan?

- Educate the public

lol (again) Educate the public how/about what?

- Expose and crush the media elites

What does this mean? Expose who and for doing what?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cyborg6:
Cac, can you remove that retard, he hurts my brain in the morning before coffee.

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That must be an example of the Compassionate Conservative Plan.

Not that I mind you calling him a retard since I am exploiting him in the first place. But retard is not a campassionate term.

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Did you ever hear that the flicker from a fluorescent light can cause someone prone to seizures to have a one? I am very concerned about that over enthusiastic retarded fellah.

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It upsets me to see a country's president can be elected because of stances on issues that have little bearing on the running of a country (religious points of view). Unfortunately, just how likable a candidate is IS going to affect people's opinion so a more reasonable candidate, who just happens to be less likable, is unlikely to get into office.

It dismays me that because my position is left of the middle on some issues that I am automatically a pussy and / or a bleeding heart liberal. I saw a bumper sticker yesterday that made me cringe. It was a picture of the CND symbol with the tagline - "this is the footprint of the American chicken" Holy shit, what kind of crap is that? Is the only way to defend your country through the use of nuclear arms? Does the fact that someone thinks that nukes are a bad thing make them a chicken? The US spends how much a year on defence? How much use was that on 9/11/01? Why is it that it's acceptable to spend billions on arms, bilions on rebuilding Iraq but the idea of even partially funding a welfare state turns people's stomachs? So much money has already been spent in Iraq because of the WMDs. I'm not going to argue about that one, it's been done already. Quite why the invasion took place is known to a select few, the rest of us can only guess.

Why is that so many people think that those on welfare are wasters, good-for-nothings, lazy? Sure, some of them will be (and I'll bet there are as many republicans as democrats doing it) but there are also a bunch of people who are victims of circumstance. Why it is bad to want to help them out? We obviously can afford to because we're burning billions of dollars on defence. Defence from whom? When I was at high school 20 odd years ago there was already enough nukes to blow up the world several times over, why do we need more? I know that not all new arms development will have been on nukes but I'm sure a chunk of it is.

Why does it matter to the rest of the country that two people want to spend the rest of their lives together and would like to have that union recognized? What harm does it do anyone else? So what if they are of the same sex. Hold on, that goes against some stuff it says in the bible, right? What has the bible got to do with politics? Separation of church and state anyone?
EDIT: What I should have probably said is that people should probably vote based on key issues as opposed to religious beliefs but the decision is theirs, it's their vote, they should be able to use as they see fit. Even though I just suggested it, I'm not going to tell anyone how to use their vote. There's just too much religion involved with some of these issues and that probably burns me because I'm not religious.

One thing that has always confused me and I'm sure someone here help me understand. Abortion - it's a bad thing, right? It should not and must not be legal. Life begins at conception and so terminating a pregnancy early is simply not an option. I personally believe that it's a Mother's choice, it's her body and, certain restrictions aside, she should be able to make the decision. The aforementioned restrictions will probably not be agreed on by the everyone but, for example, while I think it is OK for a woman to terminate up until, say 3 months, termination at 8 months is too late (where the line is drawn I do no know). Also, abortion should not be used as birth control. There should be good reason. Again, agreeing what is [not] a good reason is difficult. OK, now to the confusing part. Abortion is bad because taking a life is wrong. So what about the death penalty? How is that OK? When did "2 wrongs don't make a right" become invalidated? What about the innocent people who are executed? Are they not as innocent and as entitled to life as the aforemention aborted babies? For the record, I'm for the death penalty but under extreme circumstances e.g. in cases where there is NO gray area, no doubt and an abundance of evidence to prove that the plaintiff is the right person. I think that Jeffrey Dahmer is a good example for the death penalty - pity he didn't live to receive it.

OK, that's about all the time I can afford to spend on this for now. I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinions, it's highly educational most times. I would just like to end by saying that as disappointed as I am in GWB winning (I'm sure he has) I can also understand why Kerry did not win. You simply cannot afford to be unclear on your stance on any issues when running for the most powerful job in the world. You have to be clear, you have to be strong and you must not waver. People know that Bush is a blithering idiot but because of Kerry's flip-flopping it's probably a case of better the devil you know.

OK, one last thing. My wife has been "testing" a friend of hers over the past few months. Her friend is a staunch Bush supporter. My wife has been quizzing her about several key issues but only a little bit at a time and never in a very obvious fashion. Every single issue they have talked about they have agreed on, her friend has been in favour of the liberal point of view. Her friend is also a huge Bob Dylan fan Anyway, the only thing left to warrant her friend's support of GWB is money i.e. taxes. Sure, money is important, but surely you must have more than just money to base your voting decision on?!?!? If that's all that matters to you then I'm afraid that makes you pretty shallow in my opinion.

[ 11-03-2004: Message edited by: Mad Max ]

[ 11-03-2004: Message edited by: Mad Max ]

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Of course I wanted to see Bush go.

Of course I voted for Kerry, which was the only chance we had to replace bush.

However since Bush did win we have to deal with it.

Even if Kerry were elected with a Republican Senate he would have had problems getting his tax plan and other plans approved. Kerry would have still had the mess in Iraq to deal with. Kerry would have had the huge deficient to battle.

Let's see how disgusted the country gets over the next 4 years.

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Oh yeah, the link (if you are interested) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/03/opinion/03kris.html?incamp=article_popular_1

[ 11-03-2004: Message edited by: Mad Max ]

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where as, with the "red" states, bush didn't win by a huge margin either(cept maybe texas, heh), but overall he still got the pop vote.

I don't know how much the "four g's" really had anything to do with it.

"Unfortunately, just how likable a candidate is IS going to affect people's opinion so a more reasonable candidate, who just happens to be less likable, is unlikely to get into office."

I just don't think people really like Kerry, not enough to vote for him. There is too much fuzzyniess around his stance on issues. If the Bush campaigners didn't have Kerry's flip-flopping on issues to fall back on I don't know what they would have beaten him with.

EDItT : as to the article. When I look at the maps of the US showing how everyone voted, regardless of actual vote counts, it's clear to see where the democratic party have to concentrate more on. They may be doing better / worse in some areas but a loss is a loss and a win is a win. That mass of read sprawling over middle Americas is deafening (if a graphic can be deafening I mean )

[ 11-03-2004: Message edited by: Mad Max ]

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