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Author Topic: Prepare to meet thy Doom...
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Sarge
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posted 04-16-2003 04:21 PM     Profile for 20 20   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Three page article on Doom III

Quotes from that article:

quote:
They're hard at work on Doom III, which is already a shoo-in for event of the year in the $10.8 billion videogame industry, even though it's not expected out until fall.
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But it's hardly a rehash. The new game sets a benchmark for computer graphics
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Doom III is the harbinger of technology to come."
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A mere demo was Best of Show at last year's Electronic Entertainment Expo.
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Doom III, says Matt Helgeson, senior editor of Game Informer, "has slightly lower expectations around it than the second coming of Jesus."
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As level designer Christian Antkow says, "We cannot fuck this up."
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But id could pocket some cash from Microsoft. Redmond keeps calling, trying to convince the company to release a version of Doom III for the Xbox: "We're being offered a pretty significant amount of money to sit on it until an Xbox port is done," says Carmack. id hasn't announced a decision yet.
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By betting on a certain kind of hardware, Carmack creates industry standards. At stake are millions of dollars in upgrades, not only in graphics cards but in the surround-sound systems gamers will need to hear an Imp creeping up around the corner.

Posts: 3232 | From: | Registered: Jul 1999  |  IP: Logged
outrider
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posted 04-16-2003 04:32 PM     Profile for outrider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
propaganda.
Posts: 2426 | From: nc | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Rivendell
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posted 04-16-2003 05:20 PM     Profile for Rivendell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

Posts: 1966 | From: Norway | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Redlemons
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posted 04-16-2003 10:20 PM     Profile for Redlemons   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Meh. Replace Doom III with Quake II or Doom II or Duke Nukem 3D or Blood II or any number of sequels and it could have been written back then. Same old, same old.
Posts: 1711 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
MadHatter
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posted 04-16-2003 11:51 PM     Profile for MadHatter   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
They're hard at work on Doom III

havent "they" been hard at work on doom 3 for like 6 years now.

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It's a crazy world. Someone oughta sell tickets.


Posts: 1601 | From: that warm little part of your heart | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-17-2003 01:30 PM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually, they started work on Doom3 in 2000, writing the new graphics engine, and deciding to make it single player centric.

I am looking forward to this one! I will shortly be in the process of building a machine to play Doom3 when it comes out!

Here are the specs that I have in mind:

P4 3GHZ, hyperthreading
Asus P4C800 Canterbury chipset, 800MHZ DDR quad pumped! 6.4GB/second memory bandwidth! Here is a GREAT article on this, with the new 3.00 GHZ P4. The fastest damned thing on the market, bar none: http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/20030414/index.html
ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro.
2 Corsair cas2 PC3200 512MB modules.
6 Drive SCSI U2W Raid 5 array, Adaptec .controller with 128MB cache on the board.

Should run okay, I guess.

O

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vidi vici veni


Posts: 1584 | From: | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Cacophonous
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posted 04-17-2003 08:00 PM     Profile for Cacophonous   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
How does it work with 6 drive using raid 5?

3 & 3?

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Posts: 5571 | From: Yes | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-18-2003 08:14 AM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Raid 5 is merely striping across all but one drive, that one being used as a parity bit:
[Simplify]
Say you were to write a file to the array, it would put the first bit on drive 1, the second on drive 2, and so on. So six drives would look like this:

1 0 1 1 1 0

Then you add up all the digits, and get either odd or even as your answer. This bit you store on the parity drive. My example adds up to 4, even, so you would write a 0 to the parity drive. This allows the array to keep working even if you lose a drive, because it is then able to figure out what the missing bit is from the parity data.

O

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vidi vici veni


Posts: 1584 | From: | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Cacophonous
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posted 04-18-2003 09:38 AM     Profile for Cacophonous   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm a little familar with raid 5 but only with 3 drives, which I guess is the minimum.

Thanks for the explanation O

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Posts: 5571 | From: Yes | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-18-2003 02:31 PM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
No problem! Glad I could help...

Get this: I bought an Ultra 2 Wide SCSI RAID controller off Ebay for $36!! And the company I work for just phased out 60 9GB U2W drives, and gave me 14 for my own use, so the RAID array is going to be rather quick!

O

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vidi vici veni


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jondster
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posted 04-21-2003 08:35 AM     Profile for jondster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
That's fine for a "cost is no object" approach, but in realtime, isn't the RAID 5 / SCSI aspect to play a fucking game a little overboard ???

I don't recall having heard about you hitting the Superball Lottery lately...

Also, I haven't heard too much about hyperthreading being that essential for gaming yet. Does Doom3 use it, or able to take advantage of it?

[ 04-21-2003: Message edited by: jondster ]

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Posts: 2128 | From: Cascade MI USA | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
jondster
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posted 04-21-2003 08:48 AM     Profile for jondster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Oh !!! I should have read further. Free drives. That explains much here.

I quit using RAID 0 a while ago because I figured all I was doing was increasing my risk for data loss by doubling the number of drives that could fail.

Anybody here download and play Postal2 ?? Wow, incredibly politically incorrect.

[ 04-21-2003: Message edited by: jondster ]

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No Sig


Posts: 2128 | From: Cascade MI USA | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-21-2003 09:14 AM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You are right about Raid 0. Lose one drive, and you lose all of your data. 0+1 is just as fast, safe, but you use twice as many drives.

The 5 array that I am setting up will be cheap for me, around $100 total for what will now be a 7 drive array. Incredibly fast, and most of the parts were free...

14 U2W 9 GB 10,000 RPM Drives... Free
128MB Caching U2W Raid Controller $36
Adapters for 7 drives $76.95

Watching my face when running benchmarks: Priceless!

O

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vidi vici veni


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god
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posted 04-22-2003 10:11 PM     Profile for god   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey O!
How do parity files/ drives actually work?

Like a parity drive can restore full arrays of drives. And parity files when referring to movies can actually complete movies. Even if you have files missing.


I know a bunch about RAID because I just had a course and exam in an operating systems course. But I never got a decent explaination of parities. From the past I know you know your stuff so if you could enlighten the all mighty it would be appreciated


Thanks Mike


Posts: 260 | From: London, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-23-2003 09:27 AM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Well, I will try to keep this simple, yet informative. It is best done visually:

Lets say you have an array of five drives striped, with one assigned as parity, and you write a file that contains ten bits of data. The first bit will be written to the first drive, number two to the second, and so on. The sixth bit gets written back to the first drive, according to the stripe. Here are the ten bits that I am going to write to my array: 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 0

Let's see how this looks:

1st Drive: 1 0
2nd Drive: 1 0
3rd Drive: 0 1
4th Drive: 0 1
5th Drive: 1 0

This is a five drive raid 0 array. The only difference between 0 and 5 is the parity drive, obviously. To figure out the parity data, simply add each column up. If you get an "even" total, you write a "0" to the parity drive. If you get an odd total, write a "1".

1st Drive: 1 0
2nd Drive: 1 0
3rd Drive: 0 1
4th Drive: 0 1
5th Drive: 1 0

Parity Dr: 1 0

Now, assume that you have configured your array the proper way, with an empty drive just spinning there with all the rest, doing nothing. The array controller has him marked as a "hot spare". When the array has a drive that dies, the controller will recognize that fact, and rebuild the lost data automatically on the hot spare, real time with no loss. Let's wipe out one of the drives, say the 3rd Drive, and find out the missing data mathematically. The math is fairly simple to figure out. Add up all data bits on the remaining drives, and look at the answer. Compare the total from the four drives left in the stripe to the parity drive. If you get "even" as an answer, like in the first column of data, but the parity shows that the ORIGINAL total was "odd", you know that there was a "1" on the missing drive. Same thing in reverse for the second column of data, it adds up to "odd", but the parity drive shows you that the sum HAS to be "even", so you know that there is a "1" missing yet again. So, the array controller figures this stuff out, and writes it to the host spare:

1st Drive: 1 0
2nd Drive: 1 0

4th Drive: 0 1
5th Drive: 1 0

Parity Dr: 1 0
Hot Spare: 0 1

Now the controller marks the hot spare as "3rd Drive" and honks at you to replace the dead hard drive, which becomes the new hot spare. This is done in real time, without taking the server (or in my case, desktop) down at all, while still having access to all the files.

Pretty amazing stuff.

If you want to be REALLY safe, use a dual channel raid controller, and mirror this entire setup on a new chain and set of drives. But the controller itself becomes a single point of failure, so most places use two controllers, two identical sets of drives, and so on. That way, no single piece of hardware failure can knock you offline.

The staffing company that I used to work for used this idea with their IBM RS/6000 Unix database servers. The product is called HACMP (High Availability Clustering Multi Processing), which is simply a fancy term for a "hot spare" server, that takes over for the main one should anything fail at all. It is a bitch to configure and get working properly, but it is the ultimate belt and suspenders solution to make sure that your pants don't fall down.

O

[ 04-23-2003: Message edited by: Oicu812 ]

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vidi vici veni


Posts: 1584 | From: | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
20 20
Sarge
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posted 04-23-2003 12:44 PM     Profile for 20 20   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey! This is a thread about DOOM III!! Let's keep it that way!!!


Damn thread snatchers!


Posts: 3232 | From: | Registered: Jul 1999  |  IP: Logged
20 20
Sarge
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posted 04-23-2003 12:45 PM     Profile for 20 20   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've never snatched a thread in my life!
Posts: 3232 | From: | Registered: Jul 1999  |  IP: Logged
20 20
Sarge
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posted 04-23-2003 12:46 PM     Profile for 20 20   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
As far as you know...

[ 04-23-2003: Message edited by: 20 20 ]


Posts: 3232 | From: | Registered: Jul 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-23-2003 01:07 PM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What's wrong with a RAID discussion, in conjunction with building a Doom3 capable machine? I thought someone may be interested in it....

O

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vidi vici veni


Posts: 1584 | From: | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
god
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posted 04-23-2003 01:34 PM     Profile for god   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks O

My teacher didn't really want to get in depth with that stuff because alot of the people in my class are morons.

It makes sense to me now and that is pretty cool stuff

This summer I have about 200 computers under my control at my job so I will have plenty of stories to tell about me ruining things and hopefully fixing them aswell.....


The real question is what can a 20 year old do with fiber optic connections accessible to me


Might actualy have to upgrade my p2 266 hahah


Posts: 260 | From: London, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-23-2003 02:25 PM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
They are running FIBER to the desktops? At what rate? And what is the Internet connection bandwidth from your network?

I am thinking that you need to run all 200 machines as a clustered server for the SETI project...

O

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vidi vici veni


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outrider
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posted 04-23-2003 02:55 PM     Profile for outrider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Dear Santa, the reason I am linking you to this thread is because I want a computer just like the one O is building for christmas. You can skip the raid setup though, and just toss in a big honking 200 gigger SE from WD instead. I think that will keep me out of trouble because me doesn't think norton ghost could bring it all back for me if I crash those raided drives, and Santa, you know I will. So instead, use the money saved from the raid setup and put some BC bud in my stocking.
I've been a really, really, really good boy this year.

Thanks,

Little innocent outrider, who truly believes in you


Posts: 2426 | From: nc | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
outrider
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posted 04-23-2003 03:04 PM     Profile for outrider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
PS: Santa, I just realized it is only April, if by chance a faster P4, video card, or platform is available by December, please subsitute accordingly.

Thanks,

Your humble believer, outrider


Posts: 2426 | From: nc | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-23-2003 03:35 PM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Now that is pretty funny.

The top of the line processor by December will be the P4 3.6GHZ Processor, running on the 200MHZ FSB at an internal multiplier of 18. I doubt they will actually try to go higher on the FSB, because of the lack of RAM that can handle it. The Corsair memory that I am looking at actually has a guarantee of 217 MHZ, turning a 3 GHZ processor into a 3.25 with no extra voltage required.

O

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vidi vici veni


Posts: 1584 | From: | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
god
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posted 04-23-2003 05:18 PM     Profile for god   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
They are not running fiber to the desktops its actually acting as the backbone.


Some of the computers are connected to servers via dial-up. Some are directly connected using hubs and routers. Which I would assume are connected to switch in which the fiber is connected to.

Just the fact that I have alot of computers to deal with is going to be an interesting task.

Yeah its at a provincial park so they have a ton of shit


Posts: 260 | From: London, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Snag
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posted 04-23-2003 07:43 PM     Profile for Snag   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
hope you have good speakers O. You will need them to get over the whine of all those 10k drives.
Posts: 2606 | From: Canada | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged
Oicu812
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posted 04-24-2003 04:03 PM     Profile for Oicu812   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Actually, I am going to line the case with open cell foam, and put a muffle box over the case fan exit area, and behind the power supply. It should come out almost dead silent.

O

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vidi vici veni


Posts: 1584 | From: | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
outrider
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posted 04-24-2003 06:24 PM     Profile for outrider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
My P4 2.0 box is nearly dead silent, I use it as a mini HT in the bedroom and for the occaisnional game or two. My AMD game box is pretty quiet too, but of course I only have a simple raid 0 on that one (makes for a nice big drive to share mp3 and divx)

You gonna have a killer box when you put that thang together O! I wuv my wittle P4 2.0, it is soooo solid, thing hasn't been rebooted in over a month.

Both of my boxes have msi mobos in them, I really like msi. They've given me less trouble than both abit and asus and are cheaper to boot, heh


Posts: 2426 | From: nc | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Cacophonous
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posted 04-24-2003 10:27 PM     Profile for Cacophonous   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've built/owned a few MSI boards but my current is a Soyo. I like both alot.

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Posts: 5571 | From: Yes | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
jondster
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posted 04-25-2003 08:22 AM     Profile for jondster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I'm still farting along on my AMD 2100+ ... but ... what's that I hear ??? Is it the FedEx dewd with my new ATI A-I-W 9700 Pro and Audigy2 ??? Could it be ???

(FedEx tracker says they're on the delivery truck)

The P4 2.6 or 2.8 will have to wait.

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No Sig


Posts: 2128 | From: Cascade MI USA | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
outrider
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posted 04-25-2003 09:20 AM     Profile for outrider   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Damn Jondster, you got the AIW version? How much did you pay for it? I'd surely like to have one for my P4 box, but I think I'm going to keep the gf4 ti4200 and hauppage tv card in it for a little while longer.

What I really want to upgrade is the monitor, I have a 21 inch in bedroom now, but would like to get a 32 incher like maybe one of those sampos. The 21 incher seems a lot smaller since the wife got me a widescreen xmas present for the den and we do like watching divx and dvd in bedroom as well. Size DOES matter.

Does that AIW 9700 have built in HDTV capability?


Posts: 2426 | From: nc | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
jondster
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posted 04-26-2003 08:58 AM     Profile for jondster   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Bo, I'm still fooling with it so I can only assume it'd have HDTV capability by definition - where it's used and it's resolution. To verify, I have to wait until some TV show that's done in HDTV (or better yet, like "Boomtown" which is widescreen HDTV) is on.

$349, freight no charge at Newegg.com

Strangley, I find it's graphics only a marginally better than my GF4 Ti4600.

I haven't tried any analog capture yet, although they claim 30 FPS @ 640x480

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No Sig


Posts: 2128 | From: Cascade MI USA | Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged

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